Interview

The city where 'amazing ideas' are brought to life: Gaijin Games talks San Francisco

Jason Cirillo on balancing risk with reward

The city where 'amazing ideas' are brought to life: Gaijin Games talks San Francisco

Such is the closeness of the San Francisco gaming community that the offices of Gaijin Games – today giving its take on life in the city by the Bay – sit right across the street from Double Fine, which gave us its take yesterday.

Indeed, like Double Fine, Gaijin Games was founded by a former LucasArts employee – Alex Neuse - searching for the freedom of independent development.

Now ten years to the good, Gaijan Games has gained a reputation all of its own, being the force behind the rhythm inspired Bit. Trip series of platformers, shmups, and puzzle games.

Now, however, the firm is entering a new phase, focusing on getting 'back to basics' by producing smaller titles with shorter development cycles. According to Jason Cirillo – the man leading this new initiative – Gaijan is now driven by a desire to split its resources between large and small projects, enabling titles to be developed simultaneously.

"Back when Gaijin was formed we developed the Bit. Trip series and those games were made within a few months, each one of those six. We went on to do Runner 2 which was in development for a couple of years," Cirillo, who heads up the new label Robotube tasked with building shorter projects, tells us.

"After that we wanted to get back to the roots of the company where we just come up with some fun ideas and just go for it and build the games quickly. The Robotube games are simpler. Maybe three of four months in development or maybe even shorter.

"Some of the games might just be a month or less depending on scope. We have two or three smaller games in development at the moment, with much bigger projects going on at Gaijin proper."

Mix and mingle

Robotube exists as a new brand within Gaijin rather than a studio in its own right.

Whichever side of the divide staff work on, they're free to intermingle with each other as a whole, though as Cirillo admits, the label's formation has lead to a complex working environment, with senior development staff watching over multiple games at once.

However, the benefits far outweigh any complexities. Anyone with an interesting idea can speak up and find themselves attached to an appropriate project. But could this approach lead to jealousy, with people eyeing up rival games they'd like to work on?

"I worked on Runner 2 but I'm now doing some smaller games that are mostly intended for mobile and PC or perhaps the alternative consoles like Ouya. As these games are developed there is a lot of input from the main Gaijin team as well," says Cirillo.

"It's funny because a couple of days ago one of the guys working on the big Gaijin project played one of the Robotube games and was like 'I really wanna work with you on this one and tune it. I have some cool ideas.'

"He came over and played it and had some input on it that I've implemented. Some people do look on and think that they'd like to take a break from the stress of the bigger projects and work on some of the smaller stuff."

There are other elements of the studio's approach that will be more familiar to other developers, however. Like Double Fine, Gaijin fits into the San Francisco mould of focusing on multiple platforms. The company has taken Bit. Trip and other IP to a wide variety of consoles, as well as PC and mobile as well.

Cirillo says that this has always been Gaijin's strategy, but that the realities of multi-platform development are changing and a more focused approach might be the way to go in future.

"In the past the philosophy has been release a game on as many platforms as possible to maximise profit, but we're starting to see that that may not necessarily be the case. In the past we might have released on as many platforms as possible to reduce risk but developing for consoles has become a laborious task," claims Cirillo.

"Frankly, there's a lot of headaches involved. They've always been good to work with and they take care of us, but the actual process is so complicated compared to mobile, PC and Mac. It's so much easier and direct on those platforms. Things are changing and that's going to be the case for a lot of independent developers.

"People are starting to second guess releasing on consoles. A lot of game developers became developers because they were in love with console gaming when they were young. For instance, making a Nintendo game has driven a lot of people, but they're starting to realise that it isn't as easy as they thought."

Platform play

Ideally, launching on as many platforms as possible to reach the widest audience is the traditional model for many businesses operating within the games industry, but the complexity of console certification timelines has become a common issue mentioned by a lot of smaller companies - especially those that have chosen to self-publish.

Sometimes, however, even porting a PC title to mobile can prove to be a mammoth task, with controls, UI and even mechanics and monetisation often needing to be completely reworked.

Such is this challenge that Gaijin actually abandoned the idea of porting Bit. Trip Runner 2 to mobile and spent its time creating a Runner title specifically for mobile instead.

"That's always a challenge, to tailor your game to the platforms that you're targeting. Bit. Trip Runner is a good example of that. It was designed to be a good experience on mobile," says Cirillo.

"We could have taken Runner 2 and put that on mobile, but we decided to peel back some of the layers and rebuild the important parts of the game, the controls, graphics and details. We realised we couldn't just put Runner 2 on mobile, it wouldn't have worked."

Cirillo's new game, Destructamundo, is a puzzle title focused around destroying entire systems of planets using a single explosion which causes chain reactions. It's also one of the first titles to come out under the Robotube label and one of the first Gaijin titles not to use the Bit. Trip brand.

The studio is unsure as to what impact launching a new IP on the App Store will have on Destructamundo's discoverability, but the hope is the Gaijin name will carry some weight.

"It's tough to say [if the new brand will work]. We've only got Bit. Trip Beat and Bit. Trip Runner on mobile. It's hard to say if it's given us a lot more exposure or not. Both have done well and we've listened to feedback," Cirillo claims.

"We have an advantage in that we have good fans and a decent following on social media. So we have these channels to tap into and let people know about the game. We are privileged to do interviews and have press opportunities given that we have a previous track record with Bit. Trip. That's helping us a lot."

Crucially, Cirillo points out that whatever brands Robotube titles are attached to, no one really understands mobile marketplaces completely, so there is an element of risk and experimentation in everything.

"With Bit. Trip the initial audience was mainly PC and Mac gamers, so the mobile audience wasn't that aware of us to start with. The audiences and experiences that they want are completely different," argues Cirillo.

"No one had ever heard of Flappy Bird. So there are things you have to do on mobile, in terms of design and publicity, that you just don't do anywhere else.

"Some people like to think they have it figured out but I don't believe that anyone really knows yet. It changes constantly. We're navigating unknown territories."

Out in the open

Mobile's penchant for experimentation, it's low cost barriers to entry and the random surprise success stories have made it extremely attractive to startups.

Some people have begun to question the risks of releasing a game into an increasingly overcrowded marketplace that has become incredibly difficult to penetrate, but for Cirillo and Gaijin, mobile is still the place to be.

"In my personal opinion, it's probably the best place to start. It's great for testing the waters but I don't know that any particular game developer will make a lot of money there. They will get some feedback though. It's a good easy point of entry and it doesn't cost a lot of money," says Cirillo.

"The programming languages make these games easy to port as well, for instance to PC or even something like Ouya. It's a good start, but not necessarily financially. It's very low risk."

Whatever the case, developers are lucky to have such an open platform available to them, Cirillo believes.

"I worked in mobile games before the iPhone and it was absolutely awful. You'd spend tens of thousands of Dollars making a game and no one would want it. You'd have no relationship whatsoever with carriers like AT&T.

"There was no one to call, no one to look at your game and put it on their service. Today's developers are very lucky to have iOS."

Like many people making games in San Francisco and the Bay Area, Cirillo isn't a native of the city. He moved here to get away from remote working and to be involved at the centre of gaming in the USA.

Working for Gaijin, but from home on the East Coast was a bad experience that gave him the motivation to move to California and be a part of the studio on a day-to-day basis.

"I was on the East Coast originally when I was working on Runner 2 and we would have Skype calls with everyone laughing and having a good time while working on the game, but then you hang up and think 'huh, now I'm here. This isn't fun. I want to be with those guys!' So it really helps a lot to have everyone together."

Of course, the Californian weather and food make it a great place to work, but Cirillo notes that it's the people that make the Bay Area so special.

"That's my favourite thing about working here. Everyone is connected and the Bay Area has this amazing pool of people from really interesting backgrounds. Whether it's technical, artistic or managerial," Cirillo says.

"If you have an amazing idea but can't pull it off on your own, there will always be someone around the corner who can help. You can easily find people to work with locally. We can easily find a freelance programmer, concept artist or 3D artist who can come into the office every day.

"There can be a whole bunch of them within walking distance who can come in and work with in the office instead of working remotely. That's a massive advantage. Working remotely in the games industry in a team is a romantic idea, but I can tell you from experience that it doesn't work."

The risk

Like others working in the Bay Area, Cirillo is keen to point out that starting up your own business here would be a massive risk.

The cost of living in San Francisco has gotten out of control in recent years and you don't necessarily need to be right in the city to benefit from it's gaming community.

"There have been so many massive successes in recent years from people not in the Bay Area that you don't need to be here. But hey, if you've inherited a bunch of money then by all means come and move here," Cirillo.

"I don't know if I'd recommend that to be honest. The financial risk is huge. It's a great city and there are so many benefits to being here, but it's nuts right now. Focus on your game and its development and get the name out there.

"Spend your time and money on that first and see where it goes. The tiniest apartments to rent in the city, places about the size of my bathroom, are double what people are paying for mortgages on big houses. It's crazy. It's totally insane."

Come back to PocketGamer.biz tomorrow for the last day of San Francisco Week when we speak to Amir Rao, co-founder of Supergiant Games.


Joe just loves to go fast. That's both a reflection of his status as a self-proclaimed 'racing game expert', and the fact he spends his days frantically freelancing for a bevy of games sites. For PocketGamer.biz, however, Joe brings his insight from previous job as a community manager at iOS developer Kwalee. He also has a crippling addiction to Skittles, but the sugar gets him through the day.