SYBO's Mathias Gredal Nørvig on Subway Surfers at 15: Zero UA, City’s pivot and what comes next

• A million installs a day at "zero cost of UA."
• Subway Surfers City is profitable but needs a pivot.
• A new game is coming; the movie is "not there until it's there."

Subway Surfers turns 15 in May next year and it is still the most downloaded mobile game of all time, surpassing 4.5 billion lifetime downloads.

Mathias Gredal Nørvig has been steering it for most of that run - he took over as CEO of SYBO in 2017. Today he leads the Copenhagen studio of around 125 to 130 people, part of Miniclip since 2022.

We sat down with him to talk about Subway Surfers City, the economics of an ad-funded megahit, TikTok, Miniclip and what comes after year fifteen.

A phenomenon, not a playbook

Nørvig puts lifetime downloads at 4.8 to 4.9 billion, around half of them reinstalls. "We have some people that get a new phone and get it again, then it's a testament to its stickiness," he says. "Or people who either get old enough or affluent enough to get their first smartphone. So we are still growing."

The game still brings in around a million new installs a day, nearly 15 years in. He credits "the craftsmanship of the core design, the artists making the things, the live ops team and the marketing team."

Subway Surfers City is not a sequel

City launched globally in February, and Nørvig is careful with the language surrounding the new game. "There will never be another Subway Surfers," he says. "With Subway City, we could make a game that went deeper into the lore, allowed players to progress and chase and upgrade things."

"The verdict, I think, is still out," he admits. City has had 40 to 50 million downloads and is "generating nice profits for us," but "it was probably a little too close to Subway Surfers. And the team is now working on sort of a pivot to make sure that it stands firmly on its own two feet."

Two games, two business models

"Almost 90% of our revenue on that game is ads," he says of the original. "That means that we can keep it truly free. You can always run. You will see some ads, but of course, you can also play for an hour without ever watching an ad."

The catch: "The economics of Subway Surfers only works as long as we are as viral, because our most heavy players are actually perhaps not spending other than their time. And we love them for it."

City leans on in-app purchases instead. "We wanted to see what would a modern free-to-play game offer that you cannot find in Subway One," he says. "Let's go higher resolution. Let's try more customisation. Let's allow the players to grind."

To avoid cannibalising the original, the two had to feel different. Once you find the flow in Subway Surfers, "it almost becomes like a musical game." City, by contrast, gets "really hard" after five to 15 minutes, with shorter runs that push players back into the meta game to upgrade characters and explore the map.

Zero dollars of UA

So is the original's free growth a repeatable playbook, or luck? Neither, Nørvig says. "I don't think it's repeatable because I think we managed to get through a window of bliss in 2012 and that's hard to go back and enter. I don't believe it's luck either." Apart from the odd $1,500 test, the billions of downloads "came at zero cost of UA."

When Conan O'Brien used Subway Surfers gameplay in a gag at this year's Oscars, people asked how much SYBO had paid. "We didn't pay," he says. "We're just one of the most used hashtags on TikTok."

That came from a simple rule: "We will meet the fans where they are." SYBO's TikTok ranges from dancing videos to pure gameplay to mashups, including a take on Squid Game's honeycomb challenge and a Last of Us spoof. "They love that we are not buttoned up, sort of only by-the-book type of company," he says. "We're having a bit of fun with other brands."

How far can the IP stretch?

Not every spin-off landed. When Subway Surfers Tag arrived, players' were very clear about what they wanted: "We just want more runner." Puzzle games "were not super successful for us," Nørvig says, "but we could see that the players actually accepted that the IP can carry more than just a runner."

Now each game has its lane. The original can head to outer space, while City "is very true to the underground of hip-hop, graffiti and breakdancing."

Four years inside Miniclip

When SYBO went to market in early 2022, it pitched around 20 companies and got more than 10 bids. "I think we chose the right partner with Miniclip," he says. "We have been able to inspire both some virality and some funk and some originality into the Miniclip group. But I think we also have had amazing learnings on productivity, on predictability, and also on product design."

What has gotten harder isn't down to Miniclip. "I think the industry has gotten harder," he says, pointing to consolidation and higher growth expectations for established titles.

What comes next

The original remains SYBO's "bread and butter," with a goal of entertaining players "for another decade, for another century." City has updates coming in the months ahead.

A new game is on the way too. "We have one game that is already showing a promising playable," he says. "That will most likely soft launch early next year." It sits outside the classic runner format.

Then there's the movie. "We've had to acknowledge that Hollywood works at a certain pace," Nørvig says. "We are working on something, but until it's there, it's not there."

From Copenhagen to 4.9 billion downloads, SYBO shows what Nordic studios can build. Day one of PGC Nordic is a wrap, but you can still grab a ticket for day two on October 21st.